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Post by Bill LeMonnier on May 23, 2016 18:21:08 GMT
The video file is too big for this website so please just click on the link below to download the WeTransfer file... Make the Call !!! You have a blocked punt... what's the result of the play: A touchback, a safety, or an illegal bat. Use the poll on this page to click in your answer. Use the reply button to defend your answer with your rule reference and/or rationale. we.tl/EwUKzMefjg |
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Post by Bryan Currie on May 24, 2016 8:22:13 GMT
Can't see a bat anywhere, block of the kick is all good (6.3.1b), contact on the kicker by player who blocks the kick also good (9.1.16c). R player fails to gain possession before going OOB, so it's OOB behind EZ and A's responsible for the ball being there... Safety by me (8.5.1a)
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Post by Endre Breznay on May 24, 2016 8:43:41 GMT
For me Responsibility (8.7.1) and Initial Impetus (8.7.2.a) aslo takes place for ruling Safety.
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Post by Giacomo Marcuccetti on May 24, 2016 12:03:56 GMT
Agree with you guys
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Post by Ben Griffiths on May 24, 2016 13:42:37 GMT
Definitely not a Touchdown, Red 9 doesn't satisfy the requirements for a catch, therefore he never recovers the ball, so no Touchdown.
I can see an argument for calling this a bat, it does look like Red 9 could be, attempting to intentionally changing the ball's direction with his hands, but if you rule this as a bat, enforcing a 10 yard penalty form the previous spot would bring up a first down for Team A. That's a very harsh outcome on Team who've done everything right except recover the ball cleanly in the end-zone.
I'd therefore rule that Red 9 has muffed the ball in his attempt to recover it, Team A provided the impetus that took the ball across the goal-line (via the kick) therefore Team A is responsible for the ball being dead out of bounds behind the goal line - therefore safety.
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Post by Laurent Dubreuil (Larry) on May 24, 2016 14:52:20 GMT
Agree with Ben Endre and Bryan.
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Post by Kim Larsen on May 24, 2016 17:58:20 GMT
I agree, it would be very technical in my opinion to call a bat on that. I'm not even sure if he tries to recover and fails, or if he deliberately tries to bat the ball to stop it from going out of bounds. And when I can't even be sure after seeing it in 3 different angles, it would (in my humble opinion) be way too technical to call on the field. To call a bat I'd like to have a more clear "punching type" action, so it can not be mistaken for trying to recover the ball.
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Post by paultaylor on May 24, 2016 23:51:33 GMT
Agreed. Safety
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Post by Bill LeMonnier on May 25, 2016 13:57:27 GMT
This play results in a safety... that said there has been discussion here in the NCAA, questioning whether or not this Team B player "controlled" the ball and released it trying to get it to stay live in the EZ for a potential Team B recovery and touchdown.
Questions...
1) IF this player airborne tossed the ball backward into the EZ would this be legal or illegal?
2) Is it then a illegal batting situation?
3) Is a backward pass legal and if so, what separate this from a pass versus a bat?
Again, this play as shown should just be ruled a safety for a blocked kick going OOB through the EZ... put your PHD rule book hats on and think these questions through.
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Post by Ben Griffiths on May 25, 2016 16:16:07 GMT
This play results in a safety... that said there has been discussion here in the NCAA, questioning whether or not this Team B player "controlled" the ball and released it trying to get it to stay live in the EZ for a potential Team B recovery and touchdown. Questions... 1) IF this player airborne tossed the ball backward into the EZ would this be legal or illegal? 2) Is it then a illegal batting situation? 3) Is a backward pass legal and if so, what separate this from a pass versus a bat? Again, this play as shown should just be ruled a safety for a blocked kick going OOB through the EZ... put your PHD rule book hats on and think these questions through. I'd default to the definitions: •Batting (2-11-3) - Batting the ball is intentionally striking it or intentionally changing its direction with the hand(s) or arm(s).
•Passing (2-19-1) - Passing the ball is throwing it.A pass is a throw but a throw is not necessarily a pass. Passing the ball would change the status of the ball to a pass, however 2-16-1-a-c states that a scrimmage kick continues to be a kick until it is caught or recovered by a player or becomes dead. So in order for a Team B player to pass the ball he'd have to gain possession, if he gained possession in the end zone it would be a TD and the ball would be dead. So the toss isn't a pass - it must be a bat so: 1 - This would be illegal 2 - Yes It'd be an illegal batting situation 3 - As above the Team B player can't recover the kick in the End zone and then pass it, however if he recovered the ball at the A1 then passed it backwards that would be legal. ... At least that's my take! |
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Post by Bill LeMonnier on Jun 3, 2016 20:08:49 GMT
The Team B player (or Team A) cannot legally bat the ball in any direction when the ball is in the EZ... it's legal to pass the ball backwards in the EZ but to pass the ball (forward or backward) you have to control/possess the ball. This player probably did not touch down in bounds with control of the ball. Had he flipped it backwards before touching the ground, it technically is not a backward pass but would be considered a bat. Had he touched down in bounds and flipped it backward then technically he would have controlled, touched in bounds and done something common to the game... a backward pass. Then technically it would not be a pass, it would be a TD for Team B.
This player simply muffed the recovery attempt so it is a safety and 2 points for Team B.
It's simply a "what if" type play... the lesson learned is know the rules, officiate the philosophy and spirit of the rules and don't try and have the greatest eyes in the history of the game. Everyone on both teams, the coaches, the fans expects this to be a safety. The correct call was made by the on field officials... SAFETY.
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