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Post by frankkristensen on Jun 4, 2016 8:39:10 GMT
Gentlemen, I was asked about this play and it is a great play for discussion. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU4lVlNUGDY (if the link doesn't work, please copy-paste to youtube) Is the first pass complete or incomplete? Does the receiver complete the process of the catch? Is the pitch a "football related act"? Is the lateral backward or forward? Who can best cover this? How do we signal it? Is the second pass complete or incomplete? Does that kill the play? Insert your own question here... :-) And last but certianly not least... What is the result of the play?? |
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Post by PeteThom on Jun 4, 2016 13:43:35 GMT
OK Frank, here's my take on it:
The player catches the ball, returns to the ground and completes the process of the catch by pitching the ball to #6.
He's performed a football related act common to the game by pitching the ball.
The lateral pass is beyond the neutral zone and I'd say there was doubt so it's a backward pass.
The wings should have the best view of the pass but the umpire can help out here.
If we're sure the pass in backwards, we should punch into the backfield (Sup 5).
The second pass is not complete and because it was backwards the ball remains alive.
Not so much a question, more of an observation. The head linesman punches into the backfield but I'm not sure if he was in a good position to rule forward or backward and it looks like the linejudge was about to signal the play dead, perhaps he/she was in a better position and ruled it a forward pass.
The result of the play should be B's ball wherever the ball becomes dead unless the linejudge know better.
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Post by Bryan Currie on Jun 4, 2016 21:42:22 GMT
Love these close ones... first pass looks complete, receiver showing grasp and control taking the ball high, bringing it down, coming to ground in bounds and having the ability to swing it through 90 degrees and perform an accurate pass to a team mate. U is looking in at this point and has the best view on this if there were any doubt. Second pass could well have been forward, but H gives a solid punch out to confirm its backward, he looks in good position on this call, although not ideal he's just behind when the pitch is made but makes up ground to be level while the pitch is still in flight. L has the better look at this critical part of the play but sadly gives nothing. L is in the best position on all of this and can be the rock for the crew by making solid decisions either way and selling them! If he doesn't do this then all we have is doubt and trouble selling the outcome to players, teams and coaches. On this basis I've got a completed fwd pass followed by a muffed bwd pass recovered by team B. B's ball first and 10.
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Post by paultaylor on Jun 5, 2016 3:44:05 GMT
Is the first pass complete or incomplete? Yes Does the receiver complete the process of the catch? Yes via the football act of the pitch Is the pitch a "football related act"? Yes Is the lateral backward or forward? Pitch is backwards or lateral Who can best cover this? Ideally LJ punch making the rest of the crew aware of the status of the ball. Ump can assist and slow whistles from the crew. How do we signal it? Punch Is the second pass complete or incomplete? The ball is muffed and is live Does that kill the play? No. B recovery Insert your own question here... :-)Why is the video called Hook n later rather than Hook and ladder?  |
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Post by Endre Breznay on Jun 5, 2016 8:59:36 GMT
I agree with all of you, and would add only one little thing in the process: bean bag the backward pass, and wit that "highlight" the live status of the ball.
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Post by Bill LeMonnier on Jun 10, 2016 14:00:06 GMT
Agree... the first receiver completes the process of the catch: control, inbounds and a football act by the backward pass. Backward pass is muffed... bean bag would be the correct mechanics beyond the LOS.
Only comment is a technicality on choosing our words wisely... one reply said the receiver catches the ball and returns to the ground... he actually controlled the ball and returned to the ground. You haven't caught or possessed the ball until all three things are accomplished... control, inbounds, demonstrate a 2nd act. The airborne player controlling the loose ball has not caught or possessed it. Had he tossed it backward while in the air before touching the ground, this would be a muff or a bat of the forward pass and then when the 2nd receiver muffed the ball and it hits the ground, it's an incomplete pass. Just choose our words wisely on "catch and possession".
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